tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post2140414443829916601..comments2023-10-17T03:46:54.909-07:00Comments on Karen's Thoughts: Heretic, Not ApostateKarenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15915968995957299554noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-76289715571284655552017-01-08T20:47:46.829-08:002017-01-08T20:47:46.829-08:00Ya Bada badoo - oh wait - that's Fred Flintsto...Ya Bada badoo - oh wait - that's Fred Flintstone!! :) May God be with you!! BAHAI1844https://www.blogger.com/profile/06338841536425164699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-28818774988590579842009-06-06T15:51:27.422-07:002009-06-06T15:51:27.422-07:00you are really funny
you believe in bahaullah (al...you are really funny <br />you believe in bahaullah (allah the rock god of quraish) and engage in this kind of argumentation <br /><br />bahai bab bahaullah are based on a person named muhammad rasoul allah <br /><br />read Ibn Ishaq to discover who he was too long ?? yes you are right just read your newspaper tomorrow to realize what is islam<br /><br />if you read Quran carefully and stitch it to ahadith you will discover that it was written by muhammad to justify his satanic behaviour<br /><br />muhammadan islam is not a religion 8even pagan) it is a cult muhammad was a mass murderer assassin pedophile ... not a holy person <br /><br />have you seen a line just a line of critisism about muhammad in babi bahai writings?? never you can find it all praising this sun of truth the star of prophethood <br /><br />... <br /><br />just for me is funny to believe in bahaullah as the prophet that confirms Muhammd's deeds and misdeeds<br /><br />use your energy for something else<br /><br />moogan momen has torepeat the words of Abdulbaha and bahaullah that muhammad was a good guy<br /><br />where is the search for the truth <br /><br />if you read the books of Abdulbaha it is only his opinion and the repetition of the muslim scolars of all ages not the facts <br /><br />all bahais are antisemites read abdulbaha <br /><br />we do not have islam in Europe because of christian priests and jew khakhams it is a shame <br /><br />all bahais has to confirm it because this is the words of abdulbaha <br /><br />but go read the history <br /><br />have a nice time dear <br /><br />after leavin the bahai faith (cult) I am in peace and no longer I think that 99,99 of the earth population is gone astrayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-14689740604718708972008-01-24T20:10:00.000-08:002008-01-24T20:10:00.000-08:00You wrote:"It is, apparently, the long-awaited reb...You wrote:<BR/><BR/>"It is, apparently, the long-awaited rebuttal to the many academic articles and books published by ex and unenrolled Baha'is."<BR/><BR/>Do you mean rebuttal in the sense of trying "to drive or beat back"? If so, I can see what you mean.<BR/><BR/>I haven't seen the book, but from reading the abstract it doesn't look to me like it's intended to be a rebuttal in the sense of trying to refute something. I don't see Momen trying to refute anyone's ideas. He seems to be saying that his purpose is to help religious communities avoid facing attacks by apostates. He might also be trying to defame and discredit the people he's writing about. Refuting their ideas doesn't seem to be part of his purpose at all.<BR/><BR/>I was pleased to see that all four of the scorned lovers I befriended (the Gang of Four) are on his list.<BR/><BR/>"former members of a religion that have formed an oppositional coalition"<BR/><BR/>Is that Momen's definition of apostates? According to the Webster online dictionary, apostasy is renunciation of a religious faith, or abandonment of a previous loyalty. Would you disagree that all of the people on his list have abandoned a previous allegiance to the House of Justice on Mount Carmel?<BR/><BR/>"The notion that our only motivation is hatred is just ridiculous."<BR/><BR/>Are you referring to the part about "a continuous chain of acts of revenge against his own spiritual past"? Did he really say "all, without exception"? In the abstract it only says the group's campaign brings that to mind.<BR/><BR/>What it brings to my mind is a scorned lover. You all were scorned by the community that you thought was the community of your dreams, and some of you have reacted in ways scorned lovers sometimes do.<BR/><BR/>"Basically, today's 'apostates' are just CBs without the formal excommunication"<BR/><BR/>I imagine you know how it grieves and infuriates me to see people equating you with Covenant breakers, and how it grieves and infuriates me to see people using the "Covenant breaker" label as an excuse for abuse.<BR/><BR/>Again, judging from the abstract, Momen's portrayal of the people he's writing about looks distorted and uninformed to me, and designed only to defame and discredit them.<BR/><BR/>"he is trying to make sense of events which caused him distress."<BR/><BR/>Sometimes when we feel hurt or threatened by some people's ideas we react by trying to defame and discredit those people. That's what Momen's book looks like to me, judging from the abstract.Jim Habeggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09320817826382769445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-16080051747204069092007-12-17T17:39:00.000-08:002007-12-17T17:39:00.000-08:00Masood: Thank you for your kind thoughts.Dave: I...Masood: Thank you for your kind thoughts.<BR/><BR/>Dave: It's nice to see you again -- I guess neither one of us do much posting these days.<BR/><BR/>Don't feel bad about those debates; I needed to do that -- kind of get it out of my system. And you definitely aren't as fierce as some I've encountered.<BR/><BR/>But, anger wears out eventually; I got to the point where I felt like I said everything I wanted to say, and I was only just repeating myself. And I think that's true of a lot of the people on Moojan's apostate list, which is the ironic part of it.<BR/><BR/>Keep well, Dave. Allah'u'abha!<BR/><BR/>Love, KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15915968995957299554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-38979942366470949212007-12-17T09:44:00.000-08:002007-12-17T09:44:00.000-08:00Yeah - you are a Baha'i. The thing I learned from...Yeah - you are a Baha'i. The thing I learned from the internet wars is that anger is overrated. You and I said stuff pro and con that we would not say today. The trouble is that those words are now etched in the Net equivalent of stone. Yeah - we had a red vs blue fight on our hands fed by our desire to be understood. That fight took on a life of its own and there were casualties on all sides. Our differences, though deep and fairly fundamental, are in the end very very small. Our similarities are actually truly deep and truly fundamental.<BR/><BR/>Regardless of your relationship to the formal Baha'i community I for one will simply count you as a believer in Baha'u'llah and a sister in Faith if not in communal practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-42048425795654276122007-12-15T01:56:00.000-08:002007-12-15T01:56:00.000-08:00A true Bahai does not resort to name calling, or m...A true Bahai does not resort to name calling, or make reference to someone else's thoughts. Keep your hearts pure and follow the principles you desire. No one, No one has the right to question your beliefs.<BR/>"breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner, shouldst thou transgress this command <BR/>accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness." BahaullahUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14931604332206501560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-81780688282696188922007-11-27T16:23:00.000-08:002007-11-27T16:23:00.000-08:00Hi Paul,Moojan's reference to you is short. He id...Hi Paul,<BR/><BR/>Moojan's reference to you is short. He identifies both you and Bill Garlington as apostates who left the Faith before 1996, but became active and after the Talisman episode. Then he says "Johnson, a librarian, had been a Baha'i for five years (1969-1974) and could be called a serial apostate since he then became a theosophist and subsequently wrote a book 'debunking' Blavatsky. He has now moved on the Edgar Cayce's Association for Research and Enlightenment. He was active on the Talisman list as an ex-Baha'i, attacking core Baha'i beliefs and publishing an article about the Talisman episode in <I>Gnosis</I> magazine."<BR/><BR/>Then after identifying all of us bad guys, he says "The apostates described here, whatever their differences, share an obsessive hatred of their former religious community." (This includes you, bud.) And he goes on to compare us to the "very similar 'covenant-breaking' groups.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15915968995957299554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-46041043930115761222007-11-27T10:11:00.000-08:002007-11-27T10:11:00.000-08:00Hi Karen,It's downright amazing that I'd be identi...Hi Karen,<BR/><BR/>It's downright amazing that I'd be identified as a Baha'i apostate, something I just learned thanks to you. Won't pay $30+ to see myself libeled but I'd appreciate any further details.<BR/><BR/>To substantiate your point about how foolish this libel is, I withdrew from Baha'i in 1974, remained friends with Baha'is for several years, hired one in 1981, sold a house to one in 1982, and had no further dealings with Baha'is until working on a book in 1995. That brought me into contact with Baha'is but I sure as hell was not harboring any ressentiment those 21years! And since 1995 if I'm an apostate it's to Theosophy, not Baha'i. Sheesh, what a maroon!<BR/><BR/>PaulK. Paul Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07700779667324135665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-51197103728230653962007-11-26T06:58:00.000-08:002007-11-26T06:58:00.000-08:00Hi Karen,It must be a bit frustrating to believe i...Hi Karen,<BR/>It must be a bit frustrating to believe in Baha'u'llah and be labeled an apostate, but I'm sure that you understand what Momen means: he considers you an "apostate" because your heresy puts you at odds with what he regards as "the Covenant", and thereby you are implicitly a "Covenant Breaker". You are no longer deemed a "true Baha'i" by the administrative order or their minions, and you only alienate yourself further by continuing to claim to be a Baha'i.<BR/>-Dankaweahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13110699161070618600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4021317.post-12611771306505309942007-11-24T06:21:00.000-08:002007-11-24T06:21:00.000-08:00Dear Karen. Thank you so much and keep up the good...Dear Karen. Thank you so much and keep up the good work. I'm still a card-carrying Bahai, but I'm sure if Momen had read some of my comments on Beliefnet, he would have added me to his list. I guess I don't have a blog that's why I didn't get the honor. But I know what you mean about being unwelcome. I felt that from the Bahai forum moderator on Beliefnet who chastised me for incorrectly spelling the names of the Founders fo the Faith (she didn't like that I "lazily" left out all the apostrophes, etc.). Here was my response to her:<BR/>Well the moderator should inform wikipedia:<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%...AD_orthography<BR/>as they state "Because of typographic limitations, the forms "Bahai," "Bahais," "Bab," and "Bahaullah" are often used as a common spelling and are satisfactory for certain electronic uses."<BR/><BR/>But this REALLY has nothing to do with respect or disrespect towards the Holy figures, now does it? It has everything to do with putting a negative light on those in the Faith who offer a different understanding from the moderator. Obvioiusly if you don't spell like I do, then you must not be a "true" Bahai. And obviously if you don't hold the same rigid, understanding of the laws in the Faith, and bow down the same way I do it's the adminstrative order, then you can not be a "true" Bahai. And the list, I'm sure, goes on. To me, this pervasive attitude among Bahais which the moderator portrays is the greatest insult, far worse than any curse word that one could read online. Why? Because it tries to alienate a certain group of people and put them on the outside- as not being "true" Bahais. A far more sinister act than any possible curse word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com